MP3Tag = incompatible because it uses TXXX frames ?!?


#1

I'm a bit worried,
because I started to use MP3Tag, to tag some of my albums and only recently I was told that MP3Tag has some kind of specific way (keyword: TXXX) to store tag fields, which is not quite compatible to other apps, players, the id3 standard, etc ....
So I guess it won't be a good idea to use MP3Tag then ??

The entire conversation is here.


#2

That's ridiculous.
Here's a tip: Open the help of Mp3tag and click on "Names and mapping of ID3v2/WMA tag fields"
You see Mp3tag supports lots of native ID3v2 frames, probably more than most other apps.
It also means any tag name not mentioned there will be saved as custom TXXX frame, an additional feature. Yes most other programs don't support TXXX but there are the native frames for them.
MB Picard also uses TXXX frames for the "Musicbrainz ..." tags btw.
It's not "Mp3tag specific"


#3

^^ You don't take it personal, I hope ... ^^

You know, I am just beginning to learn about the id3 internal structure, tagging, etc. I'm just worried, that my (id3v2.4) tags will not be messed with, even if they have multiple values, etc.

I used Tag&Rename before. Until I discovered, that it can read 2.4 tags, but when it writes, it automatically converts them to 2.3 (without warning!). So I actually lost a considerable amount of information (mostly multiple value fields).

Now I'm a bit afraid and want to make sure, that I don't loose information or unconsciously save my tags in a very specific format which is hard or impossible to read by other apps.

So basically your answer to this is, that MP3Tag stores the information 100% according to id3-standards and is highly compatible ?


#4

#5

That's probably a handy way to access the TIPL frame that affects 5 tag names. A nice feature.
But you can edit TIPL in Mp3tag, too. Also these names are not on the tag list of Mp3tag but they are in Picard.

Now is it ID3v2.3 or 2.4 that you use? Multiple values should stay unless you edit them in the columns view or use actions on them. Which tool made them in which tag version?
All tag fields mentioned in the help are compatible. You can decide if you take one of them or make a tag for your own needs.


#6

Sorry, typo. I corrected that above. I use 2.4.

To which program is this sentence related? Tag&Rename? And are you stating, that tags are saved DIFFERENTLY depending on wether I edit them in the columns view, use actions, or use the tag-editor (double click on the song) ??? Have never heard of that!
In this particular case I made an edit with the tag-editor.

I use Picard to get the MB data (I guess I'll switch to MP3Tag exclusively once real MB support is added (not via WebSource)). Tags are saved in ID3v2.4 (UTF-8). I used to apply all subsequent changes with Tag&Rename, but although I have the most recent version (3.4.6) and it can read the tags saved by Picard, Tag&Rename converts them to 2.3 tags (no warnings, nothing in the options to change that). In MP3Tag, you can see with %_tag_read%[ (%_tag%)] that they were 2.4 before and 2.3 after. I lost a considerable amount of data with T&R(if you want I can post examples here), mostly multiple value fields. So even if T&R was really functional and handy, I have to stop using it.

Now, I really want to make sure that the information I enter in the tags is stored in a way that is most compatible to other applications and as compatible as possible to future id3 versions. I don't want to put my data into a dead-end street.
So you understand I was quite concerned when I read:

Thanks a lot for your help,
that's really nice of you.


#7

I meant Mp3tag. The columns cannot yet show mv tags
But I wonder if we mean the same thing with "multiple value" tag since I couldn't get Picard to write such a tag, maybe I need to find the right album.
When you view such a file in Mp3tag with Alt+t, do you see then one tag field at least two times? E.g.
Artist = A1
Artist = A2

If you add the tags with Picard, Mp3tag should keep all info as it was.


#8

First of all ... what do I have to do to add nested quotes here ? I click on "multiquotes" on and off, but that doesn't change anything. When I reply to a specific post, I can only quote the last post, not the quotes inside the last post ...

What's the problem with the columns view? And why is this different to editing the tags with alt+T ?

Can you confirm this ?

In order to know, if all info is kept as it was, one would need to know four things:
(A) The scope of the editing, i.e. if I change one field of the id3v2.4 tag, is MP3Tag only saving this one field or the whole tag ?
(B) If the whole tag is saved instead of just this one field, are the other tags left untouched, i.e. rewritten 1:1 ? Or does MP3Tag interpret the tags, relate them to its own TagMapping and then rewrite them?
(C ) Is it save to assume that tags can never get "lost" because MP3Tag either supports it natively, i.e. uses the frame as defined by id3.org, or if it comes across a TXXX field, it is supported as a custom frame ?
(D) What happens when MP3Tag stumbles upon a tag (like PURL (Podcast URL)) that is neither a TXXX tag nor one that it supports natively as described in the MP3Tag help (chapter "Names and mapping of ID3v2/WMA tag fields")? Is it discarded ? Or left untouched ?
(E) And maybe a last point: Does MP3Tag read+write the whole timestamp of TDOR and TDRC or only the year ? Because judging from the helpfile it is only linked to the year ....


[X] broken link
#9

What do you mean by this?

Maybe I don't use the term correctly, but yes, it's like you just said. Compare the screenshots, one is of Picard, the other MP3Tag. You can lookup the album I used for this here:
http://musicbrainz.org/album/0507a400-217f...html?tport=8000
Look especially at composer, performer and producer.


#10

I think multiquote means quoting form several different post. A nested quote should work with the reply button, but if there is more than one quote in the post you need manual editing.

I haven't installed this tool atm, but it sounds very likely.

The whole tag is saved. Unknown frames are preserved. PURL just got supported btw. The tdrc and tdor frames should also stay the same.

Concerning multiple values tag:
Thanks for the album link. It's the same thing at least for composer. The tipl and tmcl frames are presented differently in Mp3tag.
If you add Composer tag to the tag panel (Options > Tag panel) you should see Tag1\\Tag2\\Tag3
That indicates a mv tag. But in the columns you would see only Tag1 and if you edited in the columns in would erase the other tags. But it's already planed to make the columns compatible with mv tags.


#11

One serious shortcoming of Mp3tag (sorry, Florian) is that it isn't flexible enough to write just any id3v2 field that you might like. It must explicitly be designed to use read and write each and every field, otherwise it dumps the data into a TXXX field. Although TXXX is a perfectly valid means of tagging custom fields in id3v2 tags, they're not likely to be compatible with another application if that application expects a particular T-something-something-something id3v2 field.

That's why, if you follow the release notes, you'll occasionally see entries like "added support for the T--- field in id2v2.4 tags". It's a new field that Mp3 now can read and write. It's a shame that it has to work like this. When Mp3tag works with files that have free-form tagging standards, like APE and Flac or Ogg Vorbis , it doesn't have similar restrictions. If you want to read and write a tag named RED_PONY then you're free to do so.


#12

I don't get the point.

ID3v2 is a tag format where different frames have a different indented purpose and are often also represented in a different way in the file (e.g. TALB has a different layout than POPM). This is exactly why I have to explicitly add support for specific ID3 frames as you already observed from the change log. In contrary, a tag format like Vorbis Comments only consists of key-value pairs where you are free to use whatever key descriptor you wish. It's very easy to support those tag formats in a generic way. Essentially, it's like if ID3v2 only would consist of TXXX frames.

So I think complaining about the need to add support for specific ID3v2 frames shows some misunderstanding. Additionally, the comparison of ID3v2 with the different key-value pair tag formats is pointless, because you have the same key-value capabilities with ID3v2's TXXX frame. I'm not going to defend ID3v2 here (it's indeed a crappy specification), I just want to pinpoint that Mp3tag can write any field, including RED_PONY, into an ID3v2 tag.

Kind regards,
Florian