"Missing" Information In ID3 Tags

In the default MP3Tag view, I have a view of all the ID3 tags, e.g.
Comment: Record Company
Year: 2020

When I open WinAMP, I see the following:

○ "Basic Info" Tab
Comment: 5A

○ "ID3v1" Tab

○ "ID3v2" Tab
Comment: 5A

○ "APEv2" Tab
Comment: Record Company

Is this normal behaviour?

I never realized that the difference in 'view' would be so drastic,
especially when I'm trying to look at BPM or KEY tags (and it's usually missing).

I think I figured it out.
When displaying ID3 tags,
it looks like APEv2 tag information has higher 'priority' than ID3 tag.

when I go to "File -> Options -> Tags -> Mpeg"
and turn off 'APE' under "Read", then I can see a more correct / consistent view.

The priority is APE>ID3V2x>ID3V1

So now you have to find out which application writes only one tag version - even though there are apparently others already filled.

AFAIK: APE tags are at the end, ID3V1 tags are at the very end and Id3V2 are at the front (and sometimes something at the end).

So if you find a program that only writes APE tags, use that first and then MP3tag to copy the APE data to the more widespread tags of the ID3V2 version.

About the position for APE tags:
From the APEv2 specification

An APE tag at the end of a file (strongly recommended) must have at least a footer, an APE tag in the beginning of a file (strongly unrecommended) must have at least a header. When located at the end of an MP3 file, an APE tag should be placed after the last frame, just before the ID3v1 tag (if any).

thanks ohrenkino ,

well, i was looking specifically at 2 x tags,
ie. the KEY (%initialkey%) and BPM (%bpm%) tags.

I could not see any information in there, at all, in the default view of MP3Tag.
I had to turn off "APE" tags, to see it.
I felt relieved.

Now, I know which program writes only tags in ID3 only,
however, I now start to think, whether APE tags can store KEY/BPM information or not?
If not, then that 'default view' could mislead end-users.
If APE does store BPM/KEY values, then it is the 'source program' that is the culprit :slight_smile:

This is not a question of the tag fields but why a program uses APE tags to save this information.
ID3V2 has perfect fields for that: BPM and INITIALKEY
(see more fields in the help: Tag Field Mappings – Mp3tag Documentation)

So if you set MP3tag to
read and delete APE
read and write ID3V2x (but not delete)
And you read files for the first time you will see only the contents of the APE tags.
If you now save the data, only ID3V2x tags will be written, the information is copied to ID3V2x tags.
Now use "Delete Tag" from the file list context menu and the APE tag should disappear but the information should stay as it is saved in the ID3V2x tag.
Like that you get a clean(er) file without any irritation about which tags has which information.

1 Like

I think you misunderstand me, ohrenkino.

I was saying that, by changing my view in MP3Tag,
I have resolved my issue because I was using another program
to modify the KEY and BPM ID3 tags.

I was unable to see this before in MP3Tag, because MP3Tag was only showing me APE tags.
This made me think the other program was faulty...haha.
Anyway, now I am satisfied with this view in MP3Tag
(ie. I do not APE tags to obstruct my view of ID3 tags).

I have no intention of using APE tags.
However, IF APE tags can be used for BPM / KEY tags
BUT if/when I cannot see the KEY and BPM tags, then my conclusion is that the other program is the culprit (for NOT writing APE tags for KEY and BPM ) :smiley:

"Tags" are the whole thing with all the meta information and they follow certain rules like place and internal structure.
The internal structure is then represented by fields as MP3tag calls them (other standards call them chunks, atoms etc.).
When MP3tag reads tags, the internal tag structure is then mapped to MP3tag's fields - and usually there is just one field for each section of the internal subdivisions. So there has to be a rule which tag wins - and which looses.
In MP3tag APE wins over ID3v2 which wins over ID3V1.
It is a sub-optimum approach to write individual fields to just one tag - the best way would be to write all fields to all tags so that no data is lost and the contents of all tags can be exchanged freely, when the tags are in sync.
(This does not work between ID3V1 and V2 as V1 allows much fewer subdivisions.)
But sinking BPM and KEY just in APE even though there are corresponding fields in ID3V2 and leaving the rest empty leads only to such a lengthy discussion like this one without any real benefit for the available data.

I would avoid APE wherever I can and if I find them, get rid of them.
Simply switching the tags that are read does not really solve the problem.

I understand what you mean:
APE > ID3v2 > ID3v1

I do not mind APE tags, however I do not have any use for them.
When MP3Tag was showing me tags, in the list-view, I was missing some information like KEY,
but after turning off 'View APE Tag', I felt relief...that the ID3 information was there.

I did not know that in MP3Tag, there was a priority / preference for showing APE > ID3v2 .

Anyway, I have NO INTENTION to move ID3 tags into APE tags :slight_smile:

I was just making a passing comment, that if I used a different program, like BeaTunes or Mixed In Key to analyze music, and these programs then write the KEY and BPM into the tags.
However, MP3Tag was preventing me from seeing anything in the KEY and BPM field, so I would ask for refund from BeaTunes !
But if there are ID3 tags already saved, but my view was "obstructed" by MP3Tag settings, then the fault is mine !

I have no idea what the settings are in those other programs and whether one could get them to leave out the APE tags altogether.
The problem arises from programs that do not add data to existing tags but do their own thing, in this case use APE tags.
They shouldn't.
Or they should have an option to update already existing ID3Vx tags or create them from scratch.

Those other programs are fine.
They are complying with the standards of ID3 and MP3.

It's just that AFTER the modifications were made to ID3 tags, by those external programs,
I could not see them in MP3Tag because I wanted to verify whether those external programs worked or not?

This is because I did not know before you told me,
that MP3Tag has a priority display of tags: APE > ID3 .

Once I removed the ability to view APE, the ID3 tags displayed correctly in MP3Tag.
I could then confirm, the KEY and BPM information was entered correctly by those external programs :cowboy_hat_face: