mp3 namesort / artistsort fields

Been using mp3tag for a long time now and there’s a tiny field I’m missing in id3tag support. There’s a field in iTunes that’s pissing me off and I can’t for the love of **** find a way to remove it through iTunes. Fieldnames are:

Namesorting: it’s greyed out on the “my music” overview and “under “info > sorting” you can’t remove it.


Artistsorting: same problem
For example mp3 "04 – the way u make me feel.mp3". This artist is “The Black Eyed Peas”, but sorting for this song is done on “Black Eyed Peas”. Meaning it’s sorted under the B instead of T where it should be, as the artist column itself specifically mentions “The Black Eyed Peas”. So in my Artist column after artists with B, it suddenly has a portion with T, then goes back to B

Actually suffers from both problems.

I’ve yet to find a tool that’s capable of stripping those tags.

Any chance you can update mp3tag so I can finally get rid of that persistant issue that’s been haunting me for a couple years now? If you want me to test specific builds I’d be happy to do it.

Check the extended tags for such a track. You may find the field ARTISTSORT, ALBUMARTISTSORT and ALBUMSORT.
If you do not need these, you can remove them.

iTunes uses these fields specifically to allow sorting by any form other than the original "non-sort" text. By default, any standard field the has "A", "An", or "The" at the beginning, iTunes automatically strips the first word and fills the Sort field version for standard sorting practice. You can spot this automatic handling because it is greyed out in the iTunes>Get Info panel. However if you overwrite this field with anything else, it becomes the new sort text and is filled in full black text. But note that if you delete the field completely with iTunes or mp3tag, iTunes will automatically put it back the next time it handles that file.

In your example, even though the artist name is "The Black Eyed Peas" it will be filed under "B" in all music stores and libraries. But if you prefer it to always lead with "The..." You can copy and paste the entire ARTIST field into the ARTISTSORT field. Taking it a step further, for clarity, you could if you prefer take the ARTIST field of "John Lennon" and set the ARTISTSORT field to "Lennon, John" for proper name sorting. The beauty of these sort fields is that it allows any sorting that you prefer, regardless of your personalized convention.

Seems like i already posted a topic about this, completely forgot about it. So instead of creating a new one, i'll just resume where i left off apparantly

@MotleyG i know what itunes uses them for and it pisses me off. What it's logic is behind it, i don't care. I simply don't want it there. Nor do i want to do a workaround by entering something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

according to & i should be able to remove them. But if i create a new column for example with %ALBUMSORT% for value 2 and 3, nothing shows up. Even though in itunes i can see they have one

@ohrenkino i checked and by default it's not there in the info shown. When i click to "add field" the fields you speak of "ALBUMSORT", "ALBUMARTISTSORT" arent there and "ARTISTSORT" are there but i can't add them because the OK button is greyed out. I need to add a value before it'll work and thats exactly what i DONT want.

My music is labeled as follow in id3v2 tags

Artist: The Black Eyed Peas (for example)
Album: The Black Eyed Peas - Behind the Front

i sort in itunes on "album" so by all accounts the albums should be listed under T, not B

You have to enter something for "Value" if you define a new column as otherwise MP3tag cannot display anything in the column.
The "value" is usually a field variable like %albumsort% and no string constant like "2" or "The Black Eyed Peas". So please check if adding a field variable gets you closer to your goal.
If you miss a field variable in the list, then you can simply type it in with the %-character at both ends to show it is a field variable and no string constant.

I think that iTunes has a sorting algorithm that leaves out the most common articles (like "the", a, "le", "der, die, das") when sorting artists, albums and titles. So it could very well be that you get the correct sorting even without the "sort" fields.

Your example shows 2 things for me:

  • the redundant repetition of the artist name in the field album - this should not be necessary if you fill ALBUMARTIST and ARTIST.
  • that the example is a little dubious about the expected sorting: I agree that an album "Behind the Front" should appear in the "b" section of an alphabetic sorting. But this would also apply if you have the artist name "Black Eyed Peas" in front of the actual album name and iTunes leaves out the "the" for sorting...

The album itself is labeled as "The Black Eyed Peas - Behind the Front", thus it should be under T, not B. I label mine with the artist in the album name too for easy grouping. That way in itunes visual every artist has all their albums together.

Take 2 of their albums for example

"Behind the Gap" and "Monkey Business"

with my naming that becomes "The Black Eyed Peas - Behind the Gap" and "The Black Eyed Peas - Monkey Business" and both should be listed under "T" as the album name starts with a T. If i didn't do that and i sorted on album title, Behind the Gap would be listed under B and Monkey Business under M causing the artists in the artist column to go all over the place. Get the idea? I like things grouped

i tried for example to add the column "Artist Sort" with their values but the values that show up in itunes don't show up in MP3Tag. So there's nothing to edit. See image

It is well-known that iTunes stores a lot of values in its own database without writing them to the files.

It would be worthwhile to use MP3tag to enter data in ARTISTSORT and see what iTunes makes of it.

I think, you can force iTunes to write database data to files with the function to change the tag version. It is possible to change the tag version from 2.3 to 2.3 (so that you do not actually change anything but the information is written anyway).
Then see in MP3tag if the sort fields are filled.

For the grouping idea: doesn't iTunes have this "column browser" where you can select an artist, composer, genre or album so that the data in the title list gets grouped accordingly?
But it is none of my business to judge your workflow.
From the point of view of data with a low redundance factor, adding data from one field to another field is a development into the wrong direction.

If you click the Album header in iTunes more than once, you will cycle through various ways to sort that column... alphabetical, reverse alphabetical, by artist/album & artist/album/year. (or similar, I'm recalling from memory right now).