REQUEST: change inconsistent save behavior

#1

I have noticed a difference in behavior that is just nasty in terms of trying to not make mistakes, especially when you are working long and perform dozens of tasks

If you click any field in Tag Panel and start to write something in it and the press CTRL + S then it gets saved. But if you do the same in the main window [on the list of files] the change will not be saved- there the change gets saved only when Enter is hit on the keyboard or the users clicks some place else. In other words: clicking then and there equals Enter but pressing CTRL + S does not. I trying such behavior from other software but I am unable- and that only adds to the problem of making mistakes, because my brain has imprinted that CTRL + S equals Enter / accept / OK etc.

I get it that in Tag Panel you can have Multi line fields an thus may need the Enter for making a new line and not just accepting data [and thus the changes there do not have to be accepted by pressing Enter]. But the rest is nonsensical. Why, just why, does the main window assume the user is some kind of a stupido that does not mean what [s]he presses [the CTRL + S shortcut]? If I press CTRL + S it should be rather assumed by Mp3tag, that it is more likely that by a mistake I would press Enter and not the CTRL + S combination; and Mp3tag should also assume that if I press CTRL + S shortcut I am also accepting the ENTERing of new data / changes

And the problem extends to this: as I do not have to press Enter in Tag Panel, I simply constantly forget to press it in the main window. I can tell to myself "remember to press Enter or click some place else after writing new data before hitting CTRL + S" when exploring the list of files but every now and then I will simply forget to hit / click; especially when I am constantly going back and forth between Main window and Tag Panel. I would have to be a robot to not make such mistakes; or to make it but also to always spot them and repeat my tasks. All in all I constantly end up with some data / changes missing when thinking to myself "Haven't I already done that?"

#2

When you edit in the file list, you edit one file and one field at a time. So saving is done fairly quickly.

When editing in the Tag Panel with a lot of files selected, I doubt that it is really comfortable to save every time a field looses focus. Because this could take quite some time. And you multiply the number of saves enormously.

So you have to tell MP3tag when you have finished editing.
You can already set that you save everything of the tag panel when you move to another file in the file list.

#3

But my problem is not with the Tag Panel. The problem manifests itself when I edit in the main window- every now and then some of my entries are not registered [because as every monkey trained for years I press CTRL + S, expecting it to save my work that I just did]

#4

You should not act as a trained monkey. :wink:

You are missing the point:
You can save a change in the list-view with CTRL+S.
But you only can do this if the tag that you change is not also in the tag-panel.
Just try it and define a column with a tag-field that is not in the tag-panel, enter something and save with CTRL+S.

If you change a tag in the list-view the content to be seen in the tag-panel does not change.
So pressing CTRL+S, what change shall MP3Tag save, the content you see in the tag-panel or the content you see in the list view?
MP3Tag obviously decides to take the content in the tag-panel to save.

#5

That checks out

And in my opinion that is even worst as in only adds to the problem. I bet that during my monkey training none of my banana-and-whip-holding trainers told me about the difference. And so I bet that every time when I saved with CTRL + S data in a column that did not had it counterpart in Tag Panel, my monkey brain was reassured, that this is how it always works [as in other software]

There is no way I am going to unlearn that pressing of CTRL + S = save

So it should! Would that not solve the problem- or at least get rid of the basis for it [for that inconsistent behavior]? Would it be that hard to reload Tag Panel?

That is impossible; what you are imagining simply does not compute with how currently Mp3tag works

If you write something in the Tag Panel but switch to Columns [and you have to click there in order to be able to write in any tag field in the main window that holds Columns]- the whatever you wrote is automatically removed [and not saved of course]

If you write something in the Column- you are not able to see it [right away] in the Tag Panel. Because in order to successfully save it there is always an intermediate step [click or Enter] which then loads different or just next file from the list. And if you press CTRL + S instead of Enter or clicking then the change is not saved, so Tag Panel is also unaffected. And it you press CTRL + S and do save the change, on the account of that field not being present in Tag Panel, then Tag Panel do not have to choose what value to display as it does not display at all the field with that value [and if it did then the CTRL + S would have not worked, right?]

So the only time the Tag Panel is affected is when you have one file- because then pressing Enter will throw to the next file which is the same one and the same file. And that is the answer to my question- it is not hard to reload Tag Panel, as this function [in that context] is already there [as one file situation clearly shows it]. And guess what- it does not work in the same way in the opposite direction: having one file only and writing something in the Tag Panel will still not save that unless you tell it to save it [as it will disappear the moment you click that file on the 1-file-list in the main window]. And if you do tell it to save the change mane in the Tag Panel, then the data in main window with Columns is updated. And that last one you said it yourself:

To sum up: you correctly pointed me to inner working of Mp3tag, that unfortunately screams "! inconsistency !" as we have kind of three different saving related behaviors, but are mistaken about the rest

Or am I mistaken and Mp3tag currently does not work the way as I described it?

#6

That is not correct. Wether it is saved or not depends on what you have configured in
Tools -> Options -> Tags -> Save Tags when ....

#7

So, to sum up:

All a user of Mp3tg has to do to save a new data is to press CTRL + S. That is when the data is entered through Tag Panel. Because when data is entered through Columns this will not work. Although it will work in Columns, when a given tag field is not present in the Tag Panel. Other than that, in Columns a user after writing needs only to click somewhere else or press Enter. But a user cannot do the same in Tag Panel- but that is half true. Because in Tag Panel the Enter key is needed there for Multiline boxes and therefore it cannot be used for saving- but all changes in Tag Panel a user makes can be saved on a sign-by-sign basis; that is if only the "Save Tags when using arrow keys / single mouse click" option was selected under the Tools -> Options -> Tags. As then even then arrows on a keyboard can be utilized for saving changes


And now I ask everyone to please compare the rules I have just written above with this commonly known rule:

CTRL + S = saving of data / work


Does anyone else see now a need for a change of Mp3tag saving related behavior? Some kind of unification / simplification?

#8

You should see the tag panel as some kind of (not extended) tag dialogue that is always open.
Usually such dialogues have a button for confirmation ("OK", "SAVE" what you like) and for abort if there is something to abort.
After you clicked on one of these buttons the dialogue closes.

As the tag panel "dialogue" stays open, it may be puzzling to have an "OK" button as this does not close the tag panel.

The corresponding "OK" or "Save" button can be found in the toolbar.
To abort modifications entered in the tag panel, you click somewhere else (unless you haven't set a different option).
The knot that we have to bust is the basic misunderstanding of keyboard short cuts: Ctrl-S triggers the same action as the Save button in the toolbar.
So this is the functional connection and the only one. The Save button in the toolbar has nothing to do with the data in the file list.

I do not see any necessity to modify the current behaviour.

#9

I will make an analogy

Depending on the country, you drive on the left side of the road or on the right side. So it depends on "options" set for a country. Once you are in a given county, you will get used to the road rules

And now let's apply the rules of Mp3tag to road traffic: you ma make turn in direction of Tag Panel City- you drive on the left. You make a turn that will bring you closer to Columns Shore- you drive on the right. And when nobody is watching, you can drive in the middle. Sometimes you drive for hours in one direction and sometimes you constantly have to turn. So how my crossroads will it take, until you make a turn and start to drive on a wrong side of the road?

#10

I would still prefer it if we could stick to the MP3tag functions instead of discussing road traffic.

#11

So when I use Mp3tag I should turn of my brain that I use for driving? Or turn in it that hidden no-mistakes-now-mode option?

Why did not I think of that? If I would just not make mistakes coming out from constant going back and forth between Tag Panel and main window, then I would not need a unified CTRL + S behavior!

#12

Please stop using irony here or depart into off-topic analogies. ohrenkino asked you to stay on topic, which is much in line with what is required as of the Community Guidelines.

I can see why it's irritating to press Ctrl+S while being in editing-mode in the file list and have you changes not saved. It's not that easy to change, but I'll put it on my list and see what I can do.