Wiping out tag fields

I just want to be sure: will this option wipe all of the tag fields that are not listed inside it?

And does "Extended Tags..." icon form the Toolbar always show all there is?

But could it be possible for a file in a format supported by Mp3tag to have some special / hidden / not-so-typical tag value attached to it, that Mp3tag could not wipe or show this tag field? Maybe in some older version of ID3?

And what about values stored not in ID3 or APE? If I have in
Tools > Options > Tags > Ape, Mp3...
selected

"Read" for
ID3v1
APE

"Write" for
APEv2

"Remove" for
ID3v1
ID3v2
APE

then it means my Mp3tag will take care of only ID3 and APE tag fields? But what about hypothetical others?

This article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC#Metadata do not even mention of ID3 and APE usage- so how can I know [using Mp3tag] that a FLAC file does not have some more metadata attached to it? Are there at all some other tags stored not in that APE and / or ID3?

This article https://xiph.org/flac/faq.html#tools__long_meta_edits would suggest that such an indicator would be the "--keep-foreign-metadata". So if I would to see it in "Extended Tags..." [in what tag field?], then I would know there is something more? I would I not see this "--keep-foreign-metadata" if I would check "Extended Tags..."; and couldn't even possibly wipe it with >>Remove field except "fields to leave: "<< [and all extra meta that leads to or from it]?

The supported ID3 tags are listed in the help:
http://help.mp3tag.de/main_tags.html

The possible ID3 tags are listed for the ID3 standard:
http://id3.org/id3v2.3.0

You will see that there are a number of fields that are in the standard but not the MP3tag list.
PRIV fields e.g. are not read by MP3tag.

The only way to remove all metadata is to delete the tag alltogether and start from scratch.

That would suite my particular needs. Especially if it would work on any kind of format [including video ones],and not only on FLAC or MP3

So how can I do that? When I cannot use a simple solution in form of encoding to WAV format; because that's what I'm after: I want to be able to have a clear raw audio data in a WAV format, made [most of the time] out of FLAC source. [And so if a FLAC file has an exagurated ReplayGain instruction attached to it, that makes a clipping, I would also have a clipping WAV made out of it- assuming that the encoding software would not wipe that ReplayGain before the encoding process]

Yes
For FLAC files:
%_tag% will show ID3v2 if such a tag exists.
%_tag% will not show ID3v1, even if such a tag exists.
"Extended tags" will show only what is in Vorbis Comments and ignore any ID3 tags.

To remove ID3 tags from FLAC files:
Tag copy > Remove tag > Tag paste

Other applications, like Exiftool, show all versions of ID3 tags in FLAC files.
Unfortunately, Exiftool does not write audio tags.

That would cover only FLAC files [good enough for me in 95% cases]

But would it wipe out all non ID3 metadata?

I believe that Mp3tag writes only Vorbis Comments to FLAC files.
So that method should delete anything except Vorbis Comments.
I can't see the code but you can experiment yourself, or wait for a reply from the developer.

About how many actual cases are we talking?
Is there an actual use case or is this purely academic?
Do you have any indications that you do not get the results that you expect?

From zero to several thousands

Of course this is real issue and a very vital to me. Let me bring this to few simple facts

A] MP3s can have ReplayGain attached to them- as a metadata. I can lower it by using MP3Gain

B] MP3s can have ReplayGain attached to them permanently. I can lower it by using MP3Gain [although the audio can be already damaged then]

C] FLACs can have ReplayGain attached to them- as a metadata only

D] I have no tool such as MP3Gain that would process FLACs in the same way

E] I edit audio in WAVe format

F] I have no knowledge if my audio converters take the ReplayGain metadata out of the picture before encoding FLAC to WAV, or o they retain it [and apply it to the outcome file]

G] It is very likely that I will have no knowledge if my future audio converters take the ReplayGain metadata out of the picture before encoding FLAC to WAV

H] If I could wipe out all tags from FLACs, I would gain access to purified audio; and have it in my WAVes

I] There is a war launched upon listeners: loudness war. And since around 2010 probably the last bastion of normally processed audio is starting to being massacred: score music

J] I do not know why, but every FLAC I process has most of it waveform presented in such a form that if it was an MP3 I would think of it: "aha, I forgot to lower ReplayGain and this right here was most likely pumped up by it"

K] Because of how FLACs look in audio editor and because of loudness war, I have no way of defending against possible clipping; other that applying a minus value to ReplayGain. Assuming of course that FLAC itself, or any other format including MP3, was not created from audio already damaged by way to much ReplayGain applied to it [or just somewhere along the recording / editing process], by some inexperienced or purposely wrongly operating person

L] Every time I hear few characteristic distortions in film music track I wonder, if it is the fault of bad file [and in particular ReplayGain attached to it] or is it just another salvo in the loudness war. The first one I can counter-battle, but I need proper simple tools

For comparison:

Since I started to use spectrograms for checking audio quality, I run every piece of audio through them

[It helps a lot. For example I managed to discover that for example a particular video from an official upload can have poor audio quality when downloaded even in HD mode from YouTube via site like http://www.clipconverter.cc, but has good quality when simply recorder via What U Hear method, and excellent when downloaded via clipconverter.cc but from Vimeo. And that's an info you don't get to now by reading Wikipedia sub-entry on YouTube's audio quality]

And so for almost 200 various albums and singles [containing a lesser number of tracks than albums], 2 of the albums happened to be fake FLACs. I could clearly see frequency cutoff lines, signs of [possible] compression and / or transcodes in those files: something I would probably not detect audibly [certainly not with my current stereo equipment] and something that none of other dowloaders seemed to notice

So if those two were done by somebody for purpose [or by lack of proper knowledge], how many FLAC files are there that are ReplayGained up beyond clipping point? Also 1%, resulting in a number not worth of an effort when taking into consideration amount of work I do in a 6 months time? Or maybe 10%, resulting in a number needed of extra attention even when considering my average monthly workload?

I hope this comes out as a coherently painted big picture and not ramblings of a mind driven by an audiophilia nervosa

I do not question that you deal with a lot of files. But I do question whether MP3tag is the culprit.

All your proceedings have hardly anything to do with tagging. You are talking about the audio part and that is not processed by MP3tag.

So again the question: do you have any indication that the metadata is not removed if you delete a tag with MP3tag? The handling of replay gain data is a problem of the player. MP3tag does not create replay gain data.

I never said it was

Yes

I just need to know if I can use Mp3tag as a pre-editing tool or at least a tool for seeing if files are ready for my king of processing

I do not

And also do not have tools to check if it does or does not

I simply do not have tools for checking if there is ReplayGain meta data attached to other formats than MP3; and changing it in case of need

And in my case of the audio editor and converters

There is scarce info on this topic

But is it able to wipe it out, with the forementioned method?

That's the question

Some players show this info so you may indeed have the tool. For example, play the file in Winamp and open its File Info dialog. In the lower right, observe the Replay Gain box.

See the attachment for a screen shot [attached twice by accident, cannot remove?].



So many years I've used [version 5.666 Pro] it and never spotted that. Because when I got to know about ReplayGain, I also started using Mp3tag for tagging [and so there was no need for me to go to that window in Winamp anymore]

And so, I used Winamp for checking. But for searching I used Foobar 1.3.10. But adding adding two columns to it with

%REPLAYGAIN_ALBUM_GAIN%and
%REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN%values and running a scan I came up with a clear distinction between files. And here are some statistics, coming out from those almost 200 albums / singles already mentioned by me: 13 albums / singles had ReplayGain attached to them; and all of those with track ReplayGain had also album ReplayGain [so there were not one case of a single file with only track ReplayGain. So that's around 6%, a part rather significant

[Also in Mp3tag you can just add such two columns]

I also was trying to make a tag field [column] showing a value indicating existence of ReplayGain in MP3 files [in both Foobar and Mp3tag] but I could not achieve that

And here is the important part:

"Remove fields except" action in Mp3tag will not wipe out ReplayGain info from MP3s; if that meta data was applied via MP3Gain software to MP3 made with LAME codec

"Remove fields except" action in Mp3tag will wipe out ReplayGain info from FLACs; assuming that "REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN" and "REPLAYGAIN_ALBUM_GAIN" are the only way of storing that meta data in that format

And also:

Switch Sound File Converter 4.35 and 4dtos Free Audio Converter 3.1 when encoding FLAC to WAV do not take into account ReplayGain [at least in form of "REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN" and "REPLAYGAIN_ALBUM_GAIN"]. They will produce pure audio with no changes taken from ReplayGain

But Switch Sound File Converter and 4dtos Free Audio Converter will take into account ReplayGain applied via MP3Gain software to LAME coded MP3 file. They will produce permanently damaged WAV files [if that ReplayGain made clippings]

And it seems that also also Sony Sound Forge 11 loads up FLAC files without ReplayGain info, just as Audacity does. So it seems that this is rather universal approach: to leave ReplayGain out of FLAC when it is edited / processed

If someone can debunk those claims, because I misunderstood all those inner workings and made some tests in a wrong way, please tell. Or confirm my statements

Zerow, your research is interesting but I have one quibble:

If by "ReplayGain info" you mean ReplayGain tags then I don't think that is correct. As far as I know, Mp3tag can remove those tags. Of course, removing the tags does not undo the volume alterations that MP3Gain makes to audio files. Those alterations are not meta data and hence not removable by Mp3tag. Perhaps that is what you meant to say.

One have also to take into account, that MP3Gain applies the tagtype APE in default mode.

DD.20160505.0958.CEST

As I researched this topic a few weeks back, ReplayGain to FLACs is applied only as metadata [so almost all changes are reversible]

But ReplayGain to MP3s is applied either as metadata or directly to audio data [so when clipping occurs in the second method, the damage is permanent]

MP3Gain applies meta data. But Mp3tag doesn't remove that data [added by MP3Gain on LAME coded MP3s]

I just tested this once more: made a new MP3, boosted it up 2 x 12 db, executed "Remove field except" action in Mp3tag- and the file stayed with all that clipping. And my option for ignoring reading and saving tags in MP3Gain is turned off [which when turned on can make some problems with some tag values]. And in Mp3tag I do have selected "APE" in Tools > Options > Tags > Mpeg > Remove

So when I do this action in theory I remove also APE tags; but in reality I do not, because my ReplayGain info stays in MP3s

[By saying "applies the tagtype APE in default mode" you imply that this can ReplayGain in MP3Gain can be applied also in some other way- and I don't think it can]

Sure this is as it is ... Mp3tag works with tag data but never with the music stream data.

One can apply MP3Gain in non destructive mode (?), ...
and write ID3 tag, ... see MP3gain command line syntax description, you can find it already here on the forum board anywhere.

DD.20160506.0857.CEST

See also ...
Mp3Gain DOS commandline tool help:
mp3gain.1.5.1.help.txt ( 3.71K )
https://forums.mp3tag.de/index.php?act=atta...ost&id=2768

einheitliche Lautstärke bei mp3s
https://www.google.de/search?q=site%3Aforum...gain+id3+%2Fs+i

DD.20160510.1053.CEST

Sorry but this is incorrect. It is not an "either...or..." situation. Mp3Gain always alters the MP3 audio. Removing the optional tags that it writes does not undo those alterations, in fact it makes it impossible to undo them! So whether or not you remove those APE tags has no effect on how the audio file sounds. Furthermore, those tags are used only by the Mp3Gain program itself, not by media players.

Please read the Tags section of Mp3Gain Help for an explanation of how their tags work.

This not correct.
And I don't know why you constantly want to misuse this program.
Clipping done with an action like this is always removable with mp3gain.
As long as you keep the tags written by Mp3Gain you can undo to the origin.
If you remove these tags you remove the information about the original state the mp3 was in. The only reason for those tags ist to keep infomation about the original state und so to have the information to undo the actions.
Anyway you can always "repair" the clipping without these tags.

That is how I use it

I had no idea about ability to make it the other way. and I understand why the first method is the "default" one

First: I did not said "ReplayGain to MP3s is applied via MP3Gain either as metadata or directly to audio data" but that " "ReplayGain to MP3s is applied either as metadata or directly to audio data" in general

Second: MP3Gain do not change the raw data at all [in that "default" mode]. If it did I would not be able to undo the changes once a clipping occurs. And I tested this again, but this compared the original file with file-massacred-with-clipping-and-then-restored-to-that-original-state [with MP3Gain] not only with my ears but on spectrogram and in a waveform: not a pixel or line was different between them

That I do not know [and did not claim]

[More on this below, in answers to user "poster"]

Those APE tags that are applied in MP3Gain???

Are we talking about different software? MP3Gain 1.2.5 / back end 1.4.6 [whatever that back end means, but that's how it is described in its Help > About ], from http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net ?

I apply ReplayGain via MP3Gain - and I hear the change when I play such modified MP3 file in any of my players

What may have been misunderstood I will write down once again: I can't remove ReplayGain on MP3 file in Mp3tag; which is not really my goal, because I can do that already in MP3Gain. I can however remove ReplayGain in FLAC file with help of Mp3tag; which is what I was after of

Just for testing purposes

[Normally I use it to lower MP3s by 6 db, because all of my music is below that 89 db "sweat spot". Because when I get my hands on some old bootleg I can than easily pump up volume in it just by leaving it at that ~89 db. So that it is played louder in comparison to all that other "normal" music]

Yes. That's how it works

Yes. That's how it works. That is what my tests confirmed

If I could remove that meta data within Mp3tag, then I could see if the change is applied [which is what you just stated]; or if the files goes back to the original state [as if it was changed back like in MP3Gain]

And here are my settings for Mp3tag [that do not wipe ReplayGain from MP3 file changed with MP3Gain, but remove it from a FLAC] http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=09923894401826332583