Clearing ID3V1 tag fields


#1

Is there a function which will allow clearing ID3v1 fields? Many of my music tracks contain foreign language characters, I avoid any entries in ID3v1 fields. (accents, umlats, etc.. appear funny and in some cases the real information is not available). However, I do get them every now and them (Some I receive and some from auto tag)
Some music players still read the ID3v1 tags and when they encounter "special" characters, the track appears without tag or with an undesired one.
I have been using mediamonkey to zap the affected tracks.
It would be preferable if I could ensure the ID3v1 fields are blank when editing tags in mp3tag.


#2

As IDV2 tags have priority of V1 tags you will always see the V2 tags in MP3tag if you set
Extras>Tools>Mpeg
To read, write (and delete) V2
and read, write (and delete) V1.

If you enable writing V2 and V1 tags then as soon as you save any data for a file the information as shown in MP3tag is copied to both, V2 and V1 tags. So you will end up with synchronized data in both tag versions.
There is no need to delete V1 tags in an extra go.
If you want to get rid of V1 tags altogether, enable read and delete but disable write. Then cut&paste the tags with the special functions from Mp3tag for tags.


#3

Thanks for the info. It does help. Good info, challenge resolved.

BTW my problem is not having V1 and V2 being different.
While V2 accepts extended characters V1 does not and some players (car radio with mp3 player, player on my android phone, etc..) read V1 first and if there is any data in the tag field then this is what is shown and some character from the extended character set will create a hiccup.

Again thanks


#4

I have a similar problem with special characters (slovenian), though I do not know if my settings are correct, if please someone could suggest how to do it right.
Please see my settings in attachment.

Here is one of my files (right click to save) http://gsg.si/003klarineti_tico.mp3
It should be (Artist): Kvintet klarinetov: Živa Ž. - 1., David A... - 2., Vid Š. - 3., Larisa R. - 4., Anže K... - bas klarinet, Ivan M...

I would like to understand why on some players my special characters are corrupted in some players (`e instead od č etc.).

Plus can someone give me advice how to tag properly - I used some tag validation tool and it gave result that normalisation information is missing - I however wish to keep all of my music in the level I created it and not to normalise it - so how could I use that function?

Thanks in advance for your kind replies!



#5

There is a thread in the German section on the abilities of various players to deal with different character encoding:
/t/2786/1

In general it says that you should tag your files with UTF-16 unless you player cannot cope. Then try ISO.

As for the normalization info: if this message is produced by mp3diags: you may just as well ignore it. Not that it does not mean anything but you can configure mp3diags which deviations should be displayed. If normalization is nothing to worry about then set this message to be ignored. (i have done so as I do not want normalization either).


#6

Ok, understood that (I also speak German), however my problems are not umlauts, hence I post in English forum. Mi problems are letters č, ć etc. - Umlauts work properly in ISO settings, however "č" gets assimilated to "c" if I do use the ISO setting. My wish is that older players could read tags also as č, but they can not. Here is a prt scr of my settings, tried UTF 8/16 and both get corrupted in the car stereo, ISO settings corrupts all č to c characters etc.

So could please someone check the file linked in my previous post to see if it is made correctly and to help me understand why a lot of players corrupt my characters (is it because they are ID3v1 and not v2???, or is it just my settings). I would appreciate that.

Thanks for the normalisation info. Yes, I prefer skipping that.

So what is my goal is to do the tags proffesionaly, and would like to know if the file linked is made in this way.
I also have a problem with tags that in my car USB some of them did not start at the beginning but a second or more later - also mp3diag and mp3val could not solve that - still struggling with that ... But perhaps I should ask that in another thread, shouldn't I?



#7

As you can see (and probably have already seen by yourself) IDv1 does not support non-ansi-characters - the v1 field info is a copy of the contents of the v2 fields.



Also v1 fields are shorter. And: ALBUMARTIST is no V1 field, so you miss information.

Also, it looks as though your car player does not know how to copy with V2 tags (which are at the beginning of a file) and miscalculates the start.

The only way around it, I think, is to have one master collection with all tags properly in UTF16 and V2 and a second, target collection that is a copy of the master collection but has V1 tags and ISO. As ISO depends on the codepage, you have to find out which codepage the car player assumes so you can get the corresponding translation.
Which, I think, is a lot of hustle.



#8

Thanks! Other words: there is no solution.
So what settings should I rather use?
My goal is to force V2 tags, which are complete and contain all characters and length.
I was thinking that there is a way to make separate tags in the same file, but there is obviously no such functionality.

Still I have some unanswered questions, if you could please help me to find answers (can not find it anywhere)

  1. So I guess I have to disable in mpeg settings V1 READ in order to never get corrupted characters or is there any APE function I should or should not check?
  2. What should I check in the APE, MPC tab?
  3. Where is any documentation about these important settings?
  4. How will an itunes user see my tags? How to adopt to majority of users?
  5. Will everybody with v2 player see my characters displayed correctly or is there any other drawbacks?
  6. Am I correct if I say that ID3 tagging is loosing popularity as a standard? So what are new directions or why do I get the feeling it is getting abandoned?
  7. Why are other commercial MP3 tagging softwares not even as functional as mp3tag, or am I wrong - what is the difference anyways?
  8. how to tag Genre properly - is it better with text as now or with numbers?

Thanks again, and again :wink:


#9

No APE. It does not harm to have V1 and V2 set to read, write and delete as V2 has priority over V1

The much more important options are found in the mpeg section.

See the help file.

itunes supports V2.3 tags. so there should be no problem

If these players stick to the standard, everything will be fine.

I do not know. I have no indication that the ID3 tagging standard is on the retreat.

How should anybody in this forum answer this question. you would have to ask that question in forums for a particular tagger that you are interested in.

the numbers must have crept in when some V1 tagger wrote the bytes (as layed down in the V1 standard) and a V2 tagger could not translate them. So no: do not use numbers


#10

Thanks. I get it clearer now.
I did not find anything on the help page regarding character encoding problems. Maybe I missed it but checked twice.
So what is APE, MPC tab for then?
I really do not get this settings properly yet, sorry for insisting.
Tag players are so buggy so I would really like to get it right to avoid additional problems :wink:


#11

Also you mentioned that my player has problems with mp3tag, not playing from the beginning. However it is two players in my both test cars, two original players, bought 5 and 3 years ago with the same problem. On my computer it is ok.

So what is the solution (not workaround as you stated) to tell them, the piece starts before? mp3diag and mp3val did not help either. Because some files play ok, some don't.
Is there any expert on this here around, or should I post this somewhere else?

There is just no way I can have two sets of mp3 files (v1 and v2). Way to confusing.


#12

If you have an intermittent failure ... it is up to you to find the differences. I would look at the real tagging: do all of these files have V1 and V2 tags? Or just V1 tags? Or do they have a fairly large gap of silence at the beginning anyway so that one does not notice?

What I would test: how do these files that start too late behave if you write only a v1-tag? V1 is written at the end, v2 at the beginning of a file. If the files are ok with v1 then you know that the car players do not understand v2 tags.
How you get around such a limitation ...

You are free, of course to post your questions anywhere you like.
What kind of expoert are you looking for if you do not supply any details on the players and files?

You will find a way.


#13

Thank you. It was not meant personally - this expert question, but rather technically, since we are probably talking about a bug (tagged mp3's do not PLAY correctly).

Ok, I will try different settings again. So you mean silence can be interpreted falsely by mp3tag editor, hence the file becomes to short?
My files have averagely 250ms of fade in before they get loud - is this a problem? Or is the fade in to quiet?
Or is there a way to manually edit the file to make it longer? For I want it rather this way then to change my audio randomly.

Additionaly, did not understand if you answered what is the APE, MPC tab for?


#14

See http://help.mp3tag.de/options_ape.html
(which is the help file)

What I meant about the silence and that some files have it and others do not: I cannot judge from the distance what the cause may be. Only if you follwo a systematic approach and keep the file the same and only vary the bit about the tag versions you can be sure what causes silence: the v2-tag-data or the file.
So far, any player that does not know how to cope with v2 tags either skips the file alltogether or plays some kind of random noise as the player interprets the tag data as audio data. That the player remains silent, is a new reaction.
As you have used mp3val and mp3diags you can be fairly sure, that the tags are in a valid format. So as the internal properties are ok, you have to look for other sources. And this may very well be the players.


#15

Ah, danke dir. Could not find that.
So it means actually that if I write APE as well, some users would be able to use that or are all APE users seing ID3v2 as well and would that be only overdone?

The remove function: if I write ID3v1 first, then uncheck write ID3v1 and check write and delete ID3v2 only, then both tags can be separated in the same file?
So I would on rewrite update ID3v2 only and we are done?

About silence - I am afraid, but I was maybe slightly misunderstood:
There is no silence when playing the file, just the audio file (as every other music) is not rendered to start at 0,00 but 0,25s, many use even more of fade in.
The file just starts playing in for example 2,5s of the audio file - so beginning is missing.
And without tags it plays correctly. I will test all settings and post later.


#16

Ok, here is the report:
I hope I managed to try all settings with writing ID3v1 tags and no change with my players:
1st an old USB car player (http://www.xcarlink.co.uk/product.php?productid=66&cat=19&page=1)
and additionally a little bit younger car player (http://www.bigbang.si/glavne-enote/xp5721-avtoradio-xplore-493742).
They play ID3v1 as well as ID3v2 and some other formats as if some of them were cut more, some less at the beginning of the audio.
They both play ok without tags.

So it must be a bug either with many players or with tagging standards or with mp3tag editor.

I also tried the possibility already described above (to write both versions of tags) and corrected the broken characters for v1 only, so it was a C instead of Č, so it don't get corrupted, however all my 3 players displayed rather v2 tags with corrupted characters, although both tags are present in the file.

So please help me to find a solution other than totally separate files, because people do not know what players they have got, it is confusing even for me.
You said I will find a solution, but again I tend not to believe that, since UTF characters were introduced to late into this technology. I am no expert, however know from experience that we have lots of problems with our characters, although it should be a standard for years by now.
For example in EU sports you will never see Đoković but always Djokovic, which is not correct etc ...
I hope you understand why I am a bit annoyed by this. Additionally everyone says, you will find a way, I spent hours in debugging only to find that it can not be done.
In my websites untill version 1.5 of Joomla (and even there) I had to hack all the codes specifying the char. encoding for example!
So Florian, help please!



#17

V2 has priority over V1 tags. So if you have both tag versions you will see only the superior one.
The "you will find a solution" part, quite honestly, means in my opinion: scrap your old players or live with the limitations.
If mp3tag displays the characters the way they should be then everything is in order. How should a tagging program that has no influence whatsoever on the display features of a player be teh tool to correct the player's firmware?

If your player cannot cope: hard luck.
This is my opinion.


#18

understood that, thanks. However in car audio majority of players do so. So change all the cars (cars old 3 years etc. all have problems with special chars) or their radios is not a solution for our educational mp3 albums.

Regarding characters problems you are not right to defend the system. I do not know this one, however if systems are well coded it is possible that if we have v1 player it would read data at the end only (v1 one) and not at the beginning (done by encrypting v2 data so they can not read it).*** So wherever this system went wrong, it still remains a bug with the system, not players. Players v1 were known to developers of v2, so they would have to consider v1 legacy, also for the lenght of the text (also in your language), so it would read rather the shorter version if it anyway can not display the longer one.

However I am even more bothered about the second bug - that some players do not get the blocksize or whatever right.
Some files yes, others not. This can surely be hacked in a way to corrupt blocksize data in so far that it would play all the music in older players as well as newer ones.

I really hope that there is a mistake in my audio, but until now I could not find anything, so it is the appended data that confuses my players. Now I want to find a hack to tell them: play from here:

I do not know that but maybe it is you OhrenKino, who is developing this program, or where should I address this problem to?

*** if this is not so then I do not see a point in why it is possible to save both tags in the same file. Do you have an answer?


#19

Bump, anyone?


#20

Guys,

I understand you do not have to give me answers, but I kindly ask you for help - as I could not get some answers for buggy behaiviours with my tags, I would really appreciate if you at least say that you have no idea, or to point me out where I could get these answers, since my problems are well thought and not only a wishlist or something a firstposter posts ussually.

So please, can anyone help me out?